750 bhp from a 1.6 engine wow

[markj23]

F1 ENGINE RULES FROM 2013
1.6-litre, four-cylinder turbos with energy recovery and fuel restrictions to replace current 2.4-litre normally aspirated V8s
Fuel efficiency to increase by a target of 50%
Overall power to remain same at approx 750bhp
Checks and balances to ensure costs are contained and performance across all engines remains comparable
Plan for advanced 'compound' turbos to be introduced in subsequent years
Power of Kers energy recovery systems to increase from 60kw in 2011 to 120kw in 2013

[lee gsi]

Give it a few years and the technology they come up with will be seen on road cars.

Its a good way to develop future innovations.

[RobW]

I'm just waiting for a diesel (or similar) powered F1 car.

That would be quite interesting though with the 1.6T engines, less torque than the V8 but would imagine they will make them rev to 20k plus!

[markj23]

Give it a few years and the technology they come up with will be seen on road cars.

Its a good way to develop future innovations.

that KERS looks like it could be fun :eek:

[rushy]

I'm just waiting for a diesel (or similar) powered F1 car.


Never lol. The high power from such a small lump comes from very high revs. For comparable power from a diesel the engine would ha e to be huge as the combustion proses works at much lower levs on a oil burner.

You could say. "Well look at Le Mans" Good point, but thats an endurance race, the petrol prototypes could go faster than the TDi's but they would have to raise the revs which in turn would lower the life of the engine.

[rushy]

Just to add, past F1 engines used to have a 1.5 with over 1000bhp and that was years ago. Just think what they could do nowadays if they were allowed.

[markj23]

Just to add, past F1 engines used to have a 1.5 with over 1000bhp and that was years ago. Just think what they could do nowadays if they were allowed.

was that before they said no turbos and side skirts? before V10s

[rushy]

I think it was after ground affect skirts mate, but before the Mansell era V10's

[rushy]

I think all F1 engine should be made to sound like the BRM V16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDCNyQxE)

[GazCDTI150]

Never lol. The high power from such a small lump comes from very high revs. For comparable power from a diesel the engine would ha e to be huge as the combustion proses works at much lower levs on a oil burner.

You could say. "Well look at Le Mans" Good point, but thats an endurance race, the petrol prototypes could go faster than the TDi's but they would have to raise the revs which in turn would lower the life of the engine.

Just think of the smoke when they are horsed. :lol:

Gazza4

[rushy]

Just think of the smoke when they are horsed. :lol:

Gazza4
There's some crackers on you tube with tuned Diesel Pickups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKXfD2-BX8&feature=related :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNBblKnMZS8&feature=related

[GazCDTI150]

There's some crackers on you tube with tuned Diesel Pickups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKXfD2-BX8&feature=related :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNBblKnMZS8&feature=related


Wow! :D:D

Nae Smoke Nae Poke. :D

Gazza4

[lee gsi]

I think they need to back the tuning box back off a bit lol

[Hideous]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm
this isn't confirmed yet, dec 10 we'll know more.
Bernie Ecclestone is very much against this idea: -
Quote Bernie Ecclestone "Why should we change to something that is going to cost millions of pounds and that nobody wants and that could end up with one manufacturer getting a big advantage?"
We shall see.
If it does go ahead, Cosworth should have something ready on the shelf.

[Big-Pete]

Moved to "Motorsport / Formula 1 etc chat" ;)

[Godzilla]

Be interesting to see how they get the power as they will be restricted to 10,000 rpm!! How big will that turbo be and how much lag

[GazCDTI150]

Be interesting to see how they get the power as they will be restricted to 10,000 rpm!! How big will that turbo be and how much lag

Then there is the strength of the block and head under that pressure. They would need to produce at 8,800rpm (or there abouts not sure where the HP would occur if the regulation regarding the restriction of 10,000rpm) 607Nm of Torque. That's alot at such a high rpm. That equates to about 15Bar in a cylinder. :eek:

Gazza4

[rushy]

The old BMW super HP blocks were taken from old road cars that had done 100k+. They them left them outside in all weathers and believe it or not used them as a urinal. There philosophy was, that any weakness would have been exposed by now and it seamed to have worked.

[markj23]

The old BMW super HP blocks were taken from old road cars that had done 100k+. They them left them outside in all weathers and believe it or not used them as a urinal. There philosophy was, that any weakness would have been exposed by now and it seamed to have worked.

remember seeing a documentary about that the cleaned out all the scrapyards in Europe

[Jaffatubes]

All confirmed now.

1.6ltrs
12000rpm limit
500bar pressure on the fuel injectors
restricted fuel tank size and fuel flow rate - approx 35% less consumption than now
approx 750BHP estimated - same as now
KERS output to be increased to compensate for loss in engine BHP.

and best bit of all - only 5 engines per driver per year in 2013 (year of introduction) and 4 in 2014!! Expect spectacular failures.

I don't think lag will be an issue, as there is talk of compound turbos - I assume multiple turbines and variable vane tech. This coupled with trick electronics and ability to scavenge and boost the exhaust flow on the over-run/downchange.

If interested, visit the Donington collection to see some of the late 70, early 80's era of F1 cars, complete with the turbos. the sheer size of some of them is comical.

Last time I was there, they had a 1.5ltr engine on a stand (out of the car) compete with its 2 turbos, one on each side of engine. Total package was tiny, but turbos were half the size of the block!

[rushy]

only 5 engines per driver per year in 2013 (year of introduction) and 4 in 2014!! Expect spectacular failures.
TBH mate don't think we'll see many actual engine failure due to the rev limit only being 12000.

[Jaffatubes]

true, but the injector and boost pressures they will have to run to achieve 750bhp+ output will be high. Couple that with eeking out the lifecycle of the machines and not being able to use exotic materials - i think the engineers will be challenged.

Look at this year with the supposedly reliable engines they have when they get near end of life - Vettel's Korea blow-up was a true engine shredder - threw the rods out the bottom of the block.

downside, there will be less ear shattering, spine tingling noise of those 19000rpm 2.4 V8's.

[GazCDTI150]

Someone somewhere has probably decided it would be cheaper.

Then again I think about it the F1 drivers have a perfect excuse.

"My qualifying lap would have been faster if that cylinder head never got in my way.":D

Gazza4

[John IS3]

TBH a diesel engine in the F1 would be superb but it would take away from the nostalgia of the sport.

With regards to how they'd work.....very well in my opinion, we had diesels in the BTCC and will cornering speed was slower but the torque meant that they could pull away again on the straights.

With regards to Petrol turbos it would completly change the sport but other motorsport series are currently making the change. The btcc are moving towards 2.0 turbo NGTC (next generation touring car) engines to make the sport cheaper and more accessable.

[GazCDTI150]

TBH a diesel engine in the F1 would be superb but it would take away from the nostalgia of the sport.

With regards to how they'd work.....very well in my opinion, we had diesels in the BTCC and will cornering speed was slower but the torque meant that they could pull away again on the straights.

You could always fit longer gearing in m8. At 1,000rpm - 100mph in 6th. :D:lol:

Gazza4

[John IS3]

You could always fit longer gearing in m8. At 1,000rpm - 100mph in 6th. :D:lol:

Gazza4

And 40 MPG :lol:

[GazCDTI150]

And 40 MPG :lol:

And no DPF's. :D

Gazza4

[Hideous]

history reminder : this is going back 25+ years really, F1 cars in the 80s were producing 1300bhp (qualifying) from a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12). 750 bhp is nothing compared to those old hondas, bmws etc, although i expect the fuel economy will have to be much better now.

like bernie eccleston, i hate this idea :rolleyes: just seems like going backwards.

[GazCDTI150]

history reminder : this is going back 25+ years really, F1 cars in the 80s were producing 1300bhp (qualifying) from a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12). 750 bhp is nothing compared to those old cosworths, bmws etc, although i expect the fuel economy will have to be much better now.

like bernie eccleston, i hate this idea :rolleyes: just seems like going backwards.

At higher RPM's. The 1.6T units ar effective producing more HP/rpm or in easier terms - more torque, which is governed by higher cylinder pressures.

Gazza4

[Hideous]

just found an interesting site, f1 technical
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/26
fuel cap of 195L/race for the 1.5T/12,000rpm in 1986.

wonder what the fuel limit will be now, can't see it being lower than 100L/race as engine technology hasn't really progressed that much since then.

[GazCDTI150]

just found an interesting site, f1 technical
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/26
fuel cap of 195L/race for the 1.5T/12,000rpm in 1986.

wonder what the fuel limit will be now, can't see it being lower than 100L/race as engine technology hasn't really progressed that much since then.

Though F1 went to 18,000rpm.:cool:

Gazza4

[rushy]

Though F1 went to 18,000rpm.:cool:

Gazza4
Its currently capped around that mark but used to touch 20000. This is why I think the engines will be perfectly fine. The get more miles out of f1 and reduce costs all they do is lower the rev limit, so playing with 12000 is going to be a breeze.