Vectra C exhaust manifolds

[paul667]

Jaspa, myself and Wazpaz discussed a few things at the Leeds rolling road earlier! The precats and the constrictive manifolds are one area where it may be possible to release some power on the 3.2 V6.(with full system, cam, and map). The manifolds below are starting points for us to consider.
Comments / ideas guys
Options so far are:

Frederiech £750
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/oldred/photo_3.jpg
JP exhausts; approx £1080
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/oldred/V6exhaustmanifold.jpg

This is from aVVOC thread, estimates are less than £500, however these would need modifying for the C.

"Can we sort a possible interest thread.......or add to this......... I know they not sorted yet, but just to give Peter at Longlife a rough guide on how many of us would like a set??

Will be
1. Tubular manifolds with as long primaries as possible that can fit into V6 engine bay
2. Downpipes to suit........will meet up with standard system
3. Decat sec, Removable for MOT, poss need to weld own section onto each side CAT
4. Will be in thicker 304 stainless so no thin raspy noise
5 Will be providing info so F28 box can be fitted so no gear linkage issues
I dont think i missed any thing??? all in thread so far................
List
A WithE............ Deposit paid."

[Jaspa]

****** horrible bits of kit who ever tought eyy!

yes, we are hoping to hear from RS tuning on monday if it is possible to electronically delete the downstream lambda sensor from the ECU.

the reason for this is that these 'manicats' have upstream and downstream lambda sensors so having a tubular manfiold with straight through downpipe would ring the sirens with the ecu as the downstream would sense problems and bring on lights. limp mode etc.

if this 'deletion' isnt possible then the only means of curing this problem is by stand alone engine managment. which personally i wouldnt justify spending the extra 800quid plus set up to run a ****** exhaust but we will see...fingers crossed.

[wazpaz]

Another way to get more power would be using nitrous. V6's respond well to nitrous(well the 2.5 and 3.0 do). Out of interest jaspa and paul, what fuel were you using when the car went on the rollers? My car runs on cheap supermarket fuel. Just wondered whether 'fancy fuel' would have made a difference to my figure?

[paul667]

my map was tweaked on Vpower and i have run on that all the time, the v power is supposed to be worth 5bhp anytime :( :(
I wont be doing nitrous. I had hoped the 3.2 would have been stightly better.

[wazpaz]

It almost seems like the 3.2 doesn't like being modified from standard in anyway and if you do the gains are minimal. All I wanted when I got my gsi was a big air filter for induction noise as my previous car had itb so it sounded immense, but now i'm thinking about manifolds and remaps.

[Ginge7289]

You are talking about spending £1000's just to gain 30BHP. It's nearly worth looking at the price of a new lump!

[tomo41]

Davey moll does them manifolds on vvoc iirc there about 700 a set but a lot better than them pictured

[Kev_A]

I was thinking of this route when I had my 3.2.
Got quotes for a custom manifold back exhaust, cams, even looked in supercharging/turbocharging, in the end I decided it just wasn't worth it, the "bang for buck" ratio just wasn't high enough.

I ran mine on a RR day with a cat back exhaust, de-restricted airbox, K&N panel filter and fresh plugs and it made 219.9bhp

Instead of spending fortunes on power mods why not put the money into decent suspension mods, shocks, springs, ARB's, bushes and most importantly - Tyres!

If you want to stick with the 3.2 then I'd just be happy with what it is, splash on a full exhaust and decent filter and that's about it.

IMO, if you want something you can wring power from get something that's turbocharged.

I took my own advice and went from my Vectra to a Corsa VXR, then a 400bhp Supra twin turbo, then back down to a Corolla T-sport compressor and finally came full circle to my current Vectra, an SRi-T as I needed a spacious family car.

[paul667]

A touch of reality for us Kev.
I actually have done the things you suggest first, as you should, brakes all EBC + yellow stuff, braided hose. Bilstein and Eibach suspension. bushes are not made for the vec and we have the largest oem arb's.
always have the option for track tyres in summer and i have just bought some lighter wheels!
I only wanted a bit more 'presence' which was when we dicovered the fueling characterisics!


I was thinking of this route when I had my 3.2.
Got quotes for a custom manifold back exhaust, cams, even looked in supercharging/turbocharging, in the end I decided it just wasn't worth it, the "bang for buck" ratio just wasn't high enough.

I ran mine on a RR day with a cat back exhaust, de-restricted airbox, K&N panel filter and fresh plugs and it made 219.9bhp

Instead of spending fortunes on power mods why not put the money into decent suspension mods, shocks, springs, ARB's, bushes and most importantly - Tyres!

If you want to stick with the 3.2 then I'd just be happy with what it is, splash on a full exhaust and decent filter and that's about it.

IMO, if you want something you can wring power from get something that's turbocharged.

I took my own advice and went from my Vectra to a Corsa VXR, then a 400bhp Supra twin turbo, then back down to a Corolla T-sport compressor and finally came full circle to my current Vectra, an SRi-T as I needed a spacious family car.

[paul667]

Davey moll does them manifolds on vvoc iirc there about 700 a set but a lot better than them pictured I understood JP (local to DaveMol)made them for Dave! I will ask.

[hagga]

we are hoping to hear from RS tuning on monday if it is possible to electronically delete the downstream lambda sensor from the ECU.

As far as i know it isn't possible... one thing we could look into is what this other sensor needs to see...is it just a difference between the upper and lower? if it is it would be quite simple to mimic this.

[Jaspa]

i was using v-power also!

hagga- he asked us if the ecus were the same as a vxr because it is possible with those and he would look into it. prosumably it is a differance between the 2 however i dont know how it could be mimic'd if its expecting variable readings depending on revs etc.

also one other problem paul touched on is that its not just a case of leaning the fuel off as when he had this done on his uni-chip it just caused 'pinking' caused by far advanced ignition, once this was retarded to suit, the engine would run as it should but hed lost power considerably......

its all a puzzle really.

[hagga]

basically the sensors are looking at a info fed back and would have to be within set limits(to say everythings fine etc) or throw up a fault... if we could find out what they are looking for..eg lower sensor readings less that upper sensor (within a specific range) this would be easy to mimic... if there's revs/throttle position etc involved this would be a little more involved..though not impossible if we knew what exactly threw up the ecu faults..If someone is on the case on finding out what's going on in the ecu.. let me know and I'll sort the electronics side (no I'm not some geek lol..I can sort basic signal conversion but know a guy who could who does some pic chip programming for the more complicated stuff) :)

[wazpaz]

Spoke with specky at rs tuning, paul has not had chance to see if the o2 sensors can be deleted. I'll ring them back tomorrow.

[paul667]

More rich running 3.2's. I have asked Chuddy for his AFR trace after his remap, should be interesting.
maybe hagga can post his post remap AFR!!
GSIFan did not get a comment but his graph would be useful.

Results for RR 27th Feb 2011 at Redline Tuning





Hyperhart
Car: 3.2 V6 GSi
Mods carried out:MIJ Exhaust + de cat, K&N panel filter, airbox mod
Fuel used: Tescos 99 octane
Estimated bhp: 218bhp
Actual bhp: 218.8
operators comments:
Daves Comments: Needs a remap to sort the mixture out

------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------

GsiFan
Car: Vectra GSi 3.2 V6
Mods carried out: air box mod
Estimated bhp: 208 bhp (221 lb ft torque)
Actual bhp: 212.8
operators comments:

-------------------------------------------

Stoneshed
Car: Signum 3.2V6 Elite
Mods carried out:
Estimated bhp: 198bhp/ 208 torques
Actual bhp: 196
operators comments:
Stonesheds comments: Needs remap to sort out mixture and to account for exhaust fitted

[hagga]

neither chuddy or myself had afr graphs but operator comments were that they where both running right (hi tech motorsport)... back to the lambda sensor stuff... reading up these will be either outputing a constant voltage or an oscillating one(somewhere between mVolts to a volt).. at some point (unless someone else finds out) I'll borrow a handheld scope from work and see what they are doing..

[wazpaz]

Phoned rs tuning again today, paul wasn't in tho. I'll call again tomorrow to see what his computer says.

[Ian-Highlander]

Vauxhall deliberately tune their engines to run rich at high revs to prevent a high EGT which can cause damage to the engine. Only found this out last month when getting into some pretty detailed discussion about mine and it's remap lol

[paul667]

Vauxhall deliberately tune their engines to run rich at high revs to prevent a high EGT which can cause damage to the engine. Only found this out last month when getting into some pretty detailed discussion about mine and it's remap lol
This cooling is not common knowledge to RS tuning, Dynodemon or
Redline as everyone of the very competant mappers at these establishments, confidently said that a remap was required [in nearly every 3.2 case].
My mapper identified that this cooling is required because of the very agressive advance in the std map.

So
These guys will map it, and they are correct in saying the engines require one(a map) based on standard tuning benchmarks, but the bottom line is that to get the AFR to the target between 12 and 13:1 the advance will have to be dropped back...lowering the power.

Obviously a lower power from a remap is not good for sales so they can probably get a slight increase <5bhp still running rich with the afr raised from 10:1 to 11:1 still very rich.

I will post up my pre and post map power and AFR tomorrow!

Nutron has the answer in the 'aquamist' system this will act as a cooler and prevent knock.:cool:

So back to this thread if we can delete the precats and fit tubulars, then remap without the cat cooling, things could be very different.

[Jaspa]

its really bizarre to be honest, because knowone wants to hear that for their engine to be running as efficiently as possible they will have to lose power. the midrange torque available is strong before it starts to over fuel.

so the ignition timing and fueling must be played with.

as above ive been clutching my keyboard the last 3days to see if this is going to be possible, as hagga has stated a constant signal from the downstream lambda will be easy to mimic, however variable feedback depending on revs, load, speed etc will be alot more complicated.

[hagga]

I think the best route here is about getting more air in(and out...I know that sounds obvious) and this is where sorting the manifolds will help... as far as the lambdas go I'm hoping there's no revs etc involved and that it's a simple case of the post cat sensor reads less than the pre cat sensor(by specified amount or %).. I'll get around to running some cables from the front manifold and grab scope from work..it's 2 channel with data logging so should be easy to compare.

[hagga]

If anyone else wants to investigate stuff..

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4948/63771946.jpg

br=brown
ws=white
gn=green

:)

[paul667]

If anyone else wants to investigate stuff..

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4948/63771946.jpg

br=brown
ws=white
gn=green

:)8u
splicing into these feeds is a little bit risky! Does anyone know if the Opcom software can datalog the 4 lambda signals?

[Jaspa]

so all they are then are resistors. yea would be a long steady process to see the differance between signals if its to be mimic'd

[wazpaz]

Those diagrams look complex to me:'(. I never hot chance to phone rs today, but I will tomorrow.

[wazpaz]

Just spoke with paul at rs tuning, he can't find the ecu on his system, he needs the model number to try track it down. He didn't sound too confident about being able to do anything, BUT fingers crossed he can.

[Jaspa]

fingers are crossed here lol

hada think about these diagrams today and just happened to wonder if the downstream lambdas are just back up? because the upstream ones are the primary function, maybe the downstream ones are to make sure the top ones are working properly.

we have cars at work that have upstream and downstream either side of the cats. and the only faults they produce are when the sensors are knackard not when they sense something differant.

im half tempted to keep an eye out for a set of precats to test by smashing the crap out of the precats and popping them on to see what happens, though they would have to be cheap, worth a shot though would eleminate this one obsticle

[paul667]

fingers are crossed here lol

hada think about these diagrams today and just happened to wonder if the downstream lambdas are just back up? because the upstream ones are the primary function, maybe the downstream ones are to make sure the top ones are working properly.

we have cars at work that have upstream and downstream either side of the cats. and the only faults they produce are when the sensors are knackard not when they sense something differant.

im half tempted to keep an eye out for a set of precats to test by smashing the crap out of the precats and popping them on to see what happens, though they would have to be cheap, worth a shot though would eleminate this one obsticle
the guys at tonights meet suggested the ecu is ok with nothing between the lambdas!!!!
check out this old thread:
http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8150&highlight=camshaft

[wazpaz]

Can anyone find the ecu model number and make? If someone can i'll call paul, I think its on the back of the ecu

[hagga]

Jaspa, myself and Wazpaz discussed a few things at the Leeds rolling road earlier! The precats and the constrictive manifolds are one area where it may be possible to release some power on the 3.2 V6.(with full system, cam, and map). The manifolds below are starting points for us to consider.
Comments / ideas guys
Options so far are:

Frederiech £750
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/oldred/photo_3.jpg
JP exhausts; approx £1080
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/oldred/V6exhaustmanifold.jpg

This is from aVVOC thread, estimates are less than £500, however these would need modifying for the C.

"Can we sort a possible interest thread.......or add to this......... I know they not sorted yet, but just to give Peter at Longlife a rough guide on how many of us would like a set??

Will be
1. Tubular manifolds with as long primaries as possible that can fit into V6 engine bay
2. Downpipes to suit........will meet up with standard system
3. Decat sec, Removable for MOT, poss need to weld own section onto each side CAT
4. Will be in thicker 304 stainless so no thin raspy noise
5 Will be providing info so F28 box can be fitted so no gear linkage issues
I dont think i missed any thing??? all in thread so far................
List
A WithE............ Deposit paid."

just a thought if we crack the secondary lambda probs... has anyone got a pattern/sample manifold as my mate can get these made much cheaper (made in china) but are stainless and would prob be about £350 a set....faing that..anyone approached anyone overhere for a possible 'group' buy/fit?

[hagga]

so all they are then are resistors. yea would be a long steady process to see the differance between signals if its to be mimic'd
the resistor symbols are the heaters

[hagga]

8u
splicing into these feeds is a little bit risky!

as long as u use a high impeadance meter/scope you're ok.


Just spoke with paul at rs tuning, he can't find the ecu on his system, he needs the model number to try track it down. He didn't sound too confident about being able to do anything, BUT fingers crossed he can.

ignition/fuel system is Motronic ME 3.1.1 accoriding to 'Autodata'


fingers are crossed here lol

hada think about these diagrams today and just happened to wonder if the downstream lambdas are just back up? because the upstream ones are the primary function, maybe the downstream ones are to make sure the top ones are working properly.


the top ones make sure fueling is ok... and as far as i know the second ones make sure the pre cat is ok(decreasing emmisions) which is where the prob occurs when removing the cats..


Can anyone find the ecu model number and make? If someone can i'll call paul, I think its on the back of the ecu...as above... autodata states 'Motronic ME 3.1.1' for fuel/ignition... keep me informed on this (pm me if needed) as other threads says it can't be done.. I'm 99% sure it can be..I'd even go as far to say that if mr rolling road is interested in this...if we get our runs/ecu faults reset for free.. i'll put alot into this... I don't mind using my car for experimenting aslong as it's controlled..

[paul667]

@ Hagga
Please can you find out if autodata specify the timing and lift for the G3 / L7 cams?

as long as u use a high impeadance meter/scope you're ok.



ignition/fuel system is Motronic ME 3.1.1 accoriding to 'Autodata'



the top ones make sure fueling is ok... and as far as i know the second ones make sure the pre cat is ok(decreasing emmisions) which is where the prob occurs when removing the cats..

...as above... autodata states 'Motronic ME 3.1.1' for fuel/ignition... keep me informed on this (pm me if needed) as other threads says it can't be done.. I'm 99% sure it can be..I'd even go as far to say that if mr rolling road is interested in this...if we get our runs/ecu faults reset for free.. i'll put alot into this... I don't mind using my car for experimenting aslong as it's controlled..

[Jaspa]

just a thought if we crack the secondary lambda probs... has anyone got a pattern/sample manifold as my mate can get these made much cheaper (made in china) but are stainless and would prob be about £350 a set....faing that..anyone approached anyone overhere for a possible 'group' buy/fit?

well theres a place not far from me that my mate seems to believe could do it, need to pop along and have a chat. basically i would just ask about equal length manifold with no precats that bolt direct to a standard downpipe then people could have there own downpipes/ cats made as thats a doddle

[paul667]

just a thought if we crack the secondary lambda probs... has anyone got a pattern/sample manifold as my mate can get these made much cheaper (made in china) but are stainless and would prob be about £350 a set....faing that..anyone approached anyone overhere for a possible 'group' buy/fit?
The SS ones in the first photo are mine and available as patterns.
The down pipe would need to be custom built for the C.

[wazpaz]

Paul at rs tuning is going to speak with a alfa romeo tuner to double check that the o2 sensor can be deleted as that ecu is used on some of them. Will report back tuesday.

[hagga]

@ Hagga
Please can you find out if autodata specify the timing and lift for the G3 / L7 cams?

sorry there's no info in autodata but know that compared to the 'a' cams (used in 3 litre) the g has the same lift but longer duration

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4443/camprofiles.jpg

[paul667]

sorry there's no info in autodata but know that compared to the 'a' cams (used in 3 litre) the g has the same lift but longer duration

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4443/camprofiles.jpg
The piper OPV6BP270B appears to have 0.5mm more lift than the G's....

[hagga]

The piper OPV6BP270B appears to have 0.5mm more lift than the G's....

after market cams will be better... but depends what you wanna spend... I got 2 g cams off fleabay for £50 :)

think I put it on another thread... if you wanna go above fast road you need solid lifters...

[Jaspa]

it says on piper website that these cams have a 256 degree duration but the above only appear to be 130???....

going off topic anyways lol

[hagga]

it says on piper website that these cams have a 256 degree duration but the above only appear to be 130???....

going off topic anyways lol

it's someones homemade drawing so may not be bang on...

[Jaspa]

ok update...some very very interesting tests were carried out today.

my mate came round today and carried out some tests with his diag equipment after id serviced it....very suprised i must say.

test 1. dual carraigway cruising, 11% load, 2000rpm, 33degrees ignition advance!!!

test 2. dual carraigway bruising, 100% load, 2-6500rpm, 24-11 degrees ignition advance (decreased gradually)

test 3. slow cruise, upstream lambda variable between 0.1-0.8v
downstream lambda between 0.4-0.6v

test 4. thrash, both lambdas reading around 0.8v at 100% load.

most suprising results are the ignition advance. was expecting to be far advanced under more load but it was less? maybe this is where the problem lies, although already advanced it may need to be advanced after 3500rpm where the mixture richens and overfuels

also with the lambdas it appears the downstream lambdas are consistantly reading between 0.4-0.6v these are to ensure the precats are working. if the resistance is within these tolerances at all times then it should be ok.

from cold all lambda readings were all over the place whilst the engine was on choke.
we believe that these signals from cold do not effect the fueling as such because the coolant temp sensor takes priority until warm when the upstream lambdas step in.

so make from this what you want but ive drawn a few conclusions myself.

1. the overfuelling is partly due down to not enough advance, but also not enough air getting in quick enough. this could be due to restrictive inlet track, and possibly cams should be changed for a higher lift and a longer duration.

2. it should be ok to install a component to replicate 0.6v to the downstream signals this will ensure ecu is recieving a signal within tolerances so assumes precats are working.

on a note with the car, these were all carried out on a private test track as the power run from 2000-6500rpm in 4th reached 135mph, appeared very responsive and was quite happy to pull all the way to the top. certainly am liking these new iridium plugs.

[wazpaz]

How much were your plugs? What you gone for?

[Jaspa]

they are denso iridium powers ik20 i believe from opieoils, £55 but worth it in my opinion u can barely see electrodes on them they like pin ******. designed to perform more consistantly at higher heat levels.

[paul667]

so make from this what you want but ive drawn a few conclusions myself.

1. the overfuelling is partly due down to not enough advance, but also not enough air getting in quick enough. this could be due to restrictive inlet track, and possibly cams should be changed for a higher lift and a longer duration.

2. it should be ok to install a component to replicate 0.6v to the downstream signals this will ensure ecu is recieving a signal within tolerances so assumes precats are working.

on a note with the car, these were all carried out on a private test track as the power run from 2000-6500rpm in 4th reached 135mph, appeared very responsive and was quite happy to pull all the way to the top. certainly am liking these new iridium plugs.

Interesting and very contrary to what the guy who mapped mine said!!

over on VVOC there is a lot of information two bits caught my eye.

i) A Z32SE running standard 3.2 inlet plenums is getting 250 to 260 bhp (cams, ex manifold 2 on this post, stanalone) so plenty of airflow!


ii)Re manicats..........."Still havent got around the pre cat problem, but saying this have a adjustable O2 simulator arriving from the states in a week or so. This will allow me to remove the two post sensors and can set both low and high voltage's and cycles.

Will see if this device can crack the problem"

[hagga]

test 3. slow cruise, upstream lambda variable between 0.1-0.8v...downstream lambda between 0.4-0.6v

test 4. thrash, both lambdas reading around 0.8v at 100% load..

so the post(downstream) sees 0.4-0.8 depending on cruise and full load... ??? will have to sort mine and log data... ideally post needs to see less... with those figures they're seeing more...(the up seeing 0.1 whilst down seeing 0.4)... seems the post cat is reading richer...


Re manicats..........."Still havent got around the pre cat problem, but saying this have a adjustable O2 simulator arriving from the states in a week or so. This will allow me to remove the two post sensors and can set both low and high voltage's and cycles.

Will see if this device can crack the problem"

any more replies to that?

[hagga]

anyone thought of trying these?

http://www.jperformance.co.uk/universal-mechanical-cel-eliminator-02-fix-sensor-housing-p-201.html

[wazpaz]

Paul from rs tuning says his alfa romeo tuning mate is on holiday...... He wants me to email him and once if gets back he'll ask him if the 3.1.1 can have o2's deleted. Ever feel like you are being messed about? It seems he is not that bothered about finding out.

[paul667]

Paul from rs tuning says his alfa romeo tuning mate is on holiday...... He wants me to email him and once if gets back he'll ask him if the 3.1.1 can have o2's deleted. Ever feel like you are being messed about? It seems he is not that bothered about finding out.

It is certainly not on Paul's priority list! I think that hagga's spacers will work a treat so no deletion would be required. Paul at RS might not even be able to map these! He questioned the ability and findings of the guy that has actually mapped my car.

[wazpaz]

He is confident he can map them, its just the o2 deleting bit. But if these spacers work all is good.

[Jaspa]

that spacer looks cool....dont see why it wouldnt work....when these mods all start to take shape though the mapping side was a concern to me....where and who would be able to do it

also the diag equipment used by my mate at the weekend suggested the ecu was bosch?

with regards to the mapping side of things based on my results im wondering what and how it would be achieved as i found it ran less ignition advance at higher revs/load etc.

[hagga]

that spacer looks cool....dont see why it wouldnt work....

after much research I think this is the way to go.. tho I believe those 02 sims would work but the spacers would be a more reliable option..for those worried about killing thier sensors when dismantling.. the original bosch ones are £70-80 but you can get ones off fleabay for £20 without the plugs etc :)


also the diag equipment used by my mate at the weekend suggested the ecu was bosch?.

it is.. Bosch Motronic ME 3.1.1...

F.A.O Jaspa and all others interested in 3.2 mods.. as you prob know.. the manifolds/precats are one unit..what we need here is to 'borrow' some manifolds and adapt them to suit our down pipes and get this stuff proved.... could we approach our local zorst peeps for a cheapy/developement buy? I can offer my car for a few days a week (work 4on 4 off) if needed..

[hagga]

could we approach our local zorst peeps for a cheapy/developement buy? .

just mailed mij.... see what comes of it :)

[hagga]

with all the inerest of 3.2 tuning..well they are getting old now lol... I think we should get a 3.2 sticky thread :)

[Vectra_C_Chris]

Very good read lads.

If a group buy does go ahead, count me in. Will obviously have to organise some shipping though :rolleyes:

[hagga]

Very good read lads.

If a group buy does go ahead, count me in. Will obviously have to organise some shipping though :rolleyes:

we'll sort that for ya :)

[bish]

count me in too :D

[Jaspa]

ok well over the weekend i emailed one of the local exhaust makers and submitted the enquiry. gave them a low down on what what would be required and that a group buy would be highly likely. i had a email back today from them saying this wouldnt be a problem however i should ring up to book a consultation because they would need to see the stock items. these are very good people not the cheapest by any means but come with a liftetime guarentee whether u own the vehicle/ item or not.

i also emailed unichip about there product as on on a few other places they seem to believe the piggyback function could cope with other demands. the reply statedn that they are able to replicate a signal though they recommend having one fitted before fitting the tubulars as it would be easier to setup if the signal is already in place as faults would be present when the tubulars are fitted.

just a thought anyway. at this moment in time though i dont have the funds to go and get manifolds made nor install a unichip just for trial and error lol

heres the site if anyones interested. feel free if anyone wants to ring.

http://www.pdgough.co.uk/

[hagga]

cool :) I've also been doing some work.. hopefully over the next couple of months i'll be fitting some decatted down pipes and be doing some trials on a post cat work around... if i can sort it i have a mate who says if i supply him standard manifolds/down pipes as a pattern he can get them made up (poss group buy to keep costs down).

[Jaspa]

i just thought id say bump....and watch this space....:):)